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Report: Climate change 'greatest threat ever' to national parks

The Natural Resources Defense Council and the Rocky Mountain Climate Organization released a report this past Thursday stating that the greatest threat that currently faces US National Parks is climate change. Click news title for article.

[http://blogs.usatoday.com/sciencefair/2009/10/report-climate-change-greatest-threat-ever-to-national-parks.html]
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:iconethereagle:
EtherEagle Featured By Owner Oct 22, 2009
We All understand that there is A LOT of things wrong on this planet. What concerns me is the "Solutions" the so called "Climate Change Crowd" propose. There is a treaty to be proposed in Copenhagen in December to replace the Kyoto treaty. Selling carbon credits and taxing the shit out of Co2 is not the answer. First of all the whole Global Warming- Climate Change scare mongering is a lie! A lie to convince people to support a global solution. People can rant and be ignorant to hidden agendas all they want, it still does not make them lies! Just because something is hidden does not make it a lie! Propaganda flows freely throughout the world. It's soul purpose is to divide people and turn them on one another. It works very well. Wake up, this climate change crap is bullshit! Just like the World Health Organizations Pandemic, or the IMF- World Banking fraud! Wake up people, your being lied to on so many levels. That is the real problem here! Deception.
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:iconrcmck:
rcmck Featured By Owner Oct 5, 2009
What happened to global warming? Wasn't actually warming so it is now climate change? I'm confused, it was sunny yesterday, tomorrow it is going to rain, is that not climate change? It will be relatively cooler tomorrow also. I find it funny that people expect climate to remain the same year in and year out, as if it is some given right. We have no control over it.
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:iconcmg2901:
cmg2901 Featured By Owner Oct 5, 2009
It is discussed always only it, but is changed nothing. It lies purely in our hand. We are obliged to it.
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:iconbowechomedia:
BowEchoMedia Featured By Owner Oct 4, 2009  Professional Photographer
Why do I just want to roll my eyes at this? Maybe because I'm a meteorology major, maybe because I've spend the last 6 days researching global climate change... I don't know, but after all I've read, I do think they are blowing things out of proportion. We have yet to collect enough data to do a real analysis of the global climate to make these kinds of assumptions and declarations. And the best article I can point you to that I've discovered in my research is this:

[link]

In the article, the author talks about how the data that's been collected was in essence flawed and that since the initial interpretation of the data was published, it has disappeared. Never mind how that happens, what really threw me for a loop was how this data was collected in the first place: around major cities where temperature is always higher because of the fact that they're all steel and concrete, which retains heat much more than the outlying country, giving you a false reading.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe humans have contributed to global climate change, but how much is the real question.
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:iconkkart:
kkart Featured By Owner Oct 4, 2009  Professional Photographer
I think we have contributed a lot to climate change, back in the 80s it was all the CFC being released into the air, look at all the pollution from car/truck exhaust...when you stop and you really think about that alone, it is major. Earth=Lungs....Pollution=Tar & Nicotine from cigarettes. It all has to go somewhere, right?
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:iconbowechomedia:
BowEchoMedia Featured By Owner Oct 5, 2009  Professional Photographer
True. I'm not saying we haven't contributed, I'm just saying how much is the question. It's all debatable because like I said in my previous comment, that collected data has become questionable.

I'm really into the science and hard facts when it comes to global warming and climate change. I can't just say, oh, yeah, we're experiencing global warming. Where are the facts? Who comes up with them? Are these people respectable scientists without a political agenda, or are they in the pocket of some politician?
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:iconandymumford:
AndyMumford Featured By Owner Oct 4, 2009
National Parks, how about the entire planet. Millions of people in developing countries face the loss of their homes and ways of living...but we might only start to do something about it when we can no longer drive our gas guzzling SUVs to National Parks.

It's good that people read articles about this, but the problem lies in people going "Oh, that's terrible" but doing nothing about it. People need to move away from their dependance on oil (which is hard in the US cos your entire economy and foreign policy is built around it) and over consumption of resources. I've said this before, and I know I'm banging on, but the average electrical consumption of a US household is 3 times that of a European one. You could use HALF the amount of energy you do, and you'd still be using more than us...but it means getting rid of those huge fridges, turning off the AC (I live in a country which has 100º temperatures for almost 4 months a year and we never use air con here. If houses are well designed, you simply don't need to). People need to change the type of cars they drive, and drive a hell of a lot less. We need to question our attitude to consumer good consumption, buying shit all the time. We need to change our attitude to food and it's production...and most of all, we need to change our attitude to developing countries.
It's terrible that so many people died in on 9/11, but 25000 people die from starvation EVERY DAY on the planet, and according to UN statistics, we could feed ever single person on the planet for less than half the amoun that the US spends on the war in Iraq (which in itself is causing untold suffering and death, and creating a whole generation of people in the middle east who resent the West even more).

In the west, and the US in particular we have the technical capality and the financial muscle to end both starvation and our dependance on oil, which is destroying the planet. As nations, we have no problem with getting together and spending billions to invade other countries, but we don't have the will to do the same thing to create renewable energy and stop people from dying from starvation.
Why is that?
What is wrong with us as people?

Quite simply, we like our comfort, we like our wealth, and we'll only start to do something when we are directly effected...and then it will be too late.
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:icondaskibum:
daskibum Featured By Owner Oct 4, 2009  Hobbyist Photographer
I love people like you who hate the US then want us to fix all the worlds problems.
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:iconandymumford:
AndyMumford Featured By Owner Oct 4, 2009
Exactly where in my comment did I say I hate the US. I don't hate the US as a country, nor the people who live there. I do however hate the foreign policy of your governments (no matter whether they are Republican or Democrat) which are solely rooted in control of resources, but I accept that most European governments are exactly the same, just less powerful.
If you'd actually read what I said, rather than jumping straight onto the defensive, you may have noticed that I used the word "we" most of the time when talking about the cause of the problems we face to today, and the people responsible for changing it.
I accept my own role in the issues we face today, and rather than expecting the US to change it (as you wrote) I take actions to change it myself. I wrote (read carefully here) that "..in the west, and the US in particular we have the technical capality and the financial muscle to end both starvation and our dependance on oil, which is destroying the planet"
What this means is that ALL developed countries have the means (financial and technical) to get together to solve the problems in the world. I wrote "the US in particular" because it's undeniable that the US has more technical and financial means than any other country. Do you think I'm wrong here? Look at the technical know-how in your country that drives the IT industry, the military industry, space exploration etc etc. Do you believe that there is another country more advanced than the US in any of these?
I wrote that "our" nations get together to spend billions on wars....I didn't isolate the US for blame here, the country I live in (Portugal) and the country of my birth (Britain) both supported the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and both support policies of organisations like the World Bank and the IMF which keep countries in debt, so where in those comments did you pick up that I hate the US?

I gave the statistic about energy usage in the US, and this is a fact. This doesn't mean I hate the US, it could equally be argued that my country uses far more energy than other countries and should therefor cutback. When someone points this out to me (as they frequently do when I visit other countries), I don't accuse them of hating my country, rather I question why it is that I live the way I do, and what I can do to change that.

Likewise I gave the statistic about the money that the US spends on wars. I accept that other countries spend significant amounts of their budgets on the same war, but can you name another one that spends 20 billion, or as high a percentage of it's GDP?

It's all about responsibility, and everyone needs to face up to it. Getting upset when people question your government doesn't help. I don't hate the US, I think it is a great country with a fantastic people who deserve far better government. But there ARE people who hate your country, and you need to look past the "Oh people hate the US cos they're jealous of our way of life" (which is nonsense btw) and look at why some people get so angry at you. You might discover that they have good reason to.
I accept the role my own countries have in the exploitation of resources and people, and it makes me ashamed of the governments who run the countries I live in.
We're all stuck in the same mess, on the same planet together....we all need to change....I know that. Do you?
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:icondaskibum:
daskibum Featured By Owner Oct 4, 2009  Hobbyist Photographer
You post was full of anti-US tones. Yes, you said we, but only after singling out the US first every time. Your tone was one of its mainly the US's fault. You want to bring 9-11 (which had nothing to do with the topic) and money spent on war that could be spent to end world hunger... meanwhile the US gives more aid to other countries than the next 2 closest combine. End of the day we aren't perfect. But we are expected to solve the problems of everyone else, we do as much good as harm, and we only get told how horrible we are. Its crap.
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:iconandymumford:
AndyMumford Featured By Owner Oct 4, 2009
Look, I once again think you're not really reading it without taking off your "You hate the US" spectacles, which is a shame. There is no tone there, but I do appreciate that "tone" is a very hard thing to judge in an internet comment box, when so much of the way that we communicate in real life is via paralinguistics and inflection of tone...neither of which come across in writing.
Let me say categorically that I am not anti-US for a whole host of reasons, not least of which is that it would be hypocritical of me to be so. My own government has identical policies to yours, after all.
I stated this to John, and I'll repeat it to you. Don't mix up people criticising certain policies of your government with being anti-American. Do you support everything your government does, and if you do criticize something, does that mean that you hate America?
Look, in my life I've worked with immigrants in England and spent a lot of time in developing countries, and have lost count of the number of times someone has brought up something the UK government has done in the past, or is doing at present. The British government has a history of exploitation much longer than the US, infact as I'm sure you know, your constitution comes from overthrowing the exploitative relationship Great Britain had with America. From slavery to war crimes, my own nation has done a lot of bad things, and I've been reminded of them hundreds of times.
Admitting this this doesn't make me anti-British. There's nothing wrong with patriotism and pride as long as they don't blind you to the bad things your country does (and I'm using "your" generally here, not specifically directed at the US) and stop you from being able to hear criticism from others about your government.
Neither should you let the fact that your country gives more aid than other countries blind you to the fact that it, like every country, my own included, takes back FAR more than it gives.

You say that "we only get told how horrible we are, it's crap". I know how it feels, because as I've said, I've had it told to my face by people I'm trying to help many times. But rather than getting defensive about it, it's better to try to understand why people might actually think that.
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:icondaskibum:
daskibum Featured By Owner Oct 4, 2009  Hobbyist Photographer
We will just have to drop it. I am not viewing it with the "you hate the US" spectacles. End of the day you say you were talking the west in general, but started every topic singling out the US as not doing enough, and even went so far as to go off topic to 9-11 and war to criticize us. If you had stayed on topic of climate change we probably would be talking electric cars (not really a viable option), solar plants, and more efficient housing.
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:iconandymumford:
AndyMumford Featured By Owner Oct 5, 2009
OK, fair enough, but let me just apologize for any offence caused if you think I was being anti-American. I didn't intend it to come across that way, and I'm sorry if it did.
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:icontherealoneeye:
TheRealOneEye Featured By Owner Oct 4, 2009   Interface Designer
The US is damned if we do and damned if we don't. We can't please everyone all the time, so whatever. Let him be in a pissy mood.
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:iconandymumford:
AndyMumford Featured By Owner Oct 4, 2009
Could I ask you to read my replies to both the comment above, as well as to Johns.

It bothers me that it was interpreted as "anti-US" and I've tried to point out that not only did I use the word "we" in most of my post about cause and responsibilty, but also clarify what I meant.

When people question your government policy, getting defensive and accusing them of being anti-US doesn't help. I've lived in various countries in the past, and some of them have at one point or another been exploited by the country of my birth (Britain). I've learned that when people criticise like this, then it isn't meant to be offensive, nor does it mean they are "anti-British" but they DO want to understand why my country has behaved that way in the past, and why it appears to preach one thing but practice another.

Don't see it as people being anti-US, rather as an opinion every bit as valid and strongly held as your own which implies no hatred, merely a will to understand what's wrong with the world and what we can do to change it
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:icontherealoneeye:
TheRealOneEye Featured By Owner Oct 5, 2009   Interface Designer
Thanks for the clarification! You make a very good point there.

What did you think of Britain when you lived there? And for that matter, the other countries you've lived in? I'm interested to hear your thoughts since you have quite a diverse viewpoint :)
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:iconshivashanti:
ShivaShanti Featured By Owner Oct 5, 2009
cool avatar
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:icontherealoneeye:
TheRealOneEye Featured By Owner Oct 6, 2009   Interface Designer
Thank you!
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:iconshivashanti:
ShivaShanti Featured By Owner Oct 6, 2009
25€
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:iconkkart:
kkart Featured By Owner Oct 4, 2009  Professional Photographer
Andy, America and Europe are 2 very different things, with the style of living, the way it works here sometimes won't work there and vice versa. While it is easy to say "drive less" the reality is America is very spread out when compared to Europe. The closest you could get is maybe Chicago and New York City where one can live and not have to own a car. However outside of those 2 cities, maybe LA, but that is a maybe, it is a requirement. People often times here commute 30 miles or more on average everyday to their jobs, from the suburbs. (I don't even know if Europe has actual suburbs, when I lived in Germany there was no such thing) Not everyone here has Air Conditioning either, though it is about a 50/50 split with that, I will tell you this much, I wouldn't want to live in Phoenix or Las Vegas without it! lol There are very big differences though between us and you, population density being perhaps the most striking.

Why are you bringing 9/11 into this? That was pretty uncalled for, and has nothing to do with how Climate Change is threatening the US National Parks. I think you are going off topic here with a lot of anti-US sentiment with Iraq and all that, which is completely unrelated to what the article is about. And I don't think we have the power to end starvation, that is something that will take the whole world to conquer.

I posted this article because one of the things currently happening in America currently is a program that has been getting a lot of attention about The US National Parks done by film maker Ken Burns. It has been getting a lot of press and has been on the news, and is show on PBS: THE NATIONAL PARKS: AMERICA'S BEST IDEA This isn't about 9/11, it isn't about starvation, it is about the US National Parks and how they are being affected. While you may think people drive their gas guzzling SUV's to National parks, it is often the other way around, where you don't see many of them, but instead you see people who hike, camp, fish, climb mountains, ride horses, and enjoy outdoor recreation. Those who do have SUV's, much of the time are pulling a Travel Trailer or a 5th Wheel so they can stay a whole entire week or more relaxing and experiencing things.
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:iconandymumford:
AndyMumford Featured By Owner Oct 4, 2009
John, rather than repeat what I've just typed in another response, I'm just going to point you to a comment I wrote above.

First of all, I don't hate the US and there's no anti US sentiment. I'm unsure as to why so many people feel that any criticism of war, or your governments foreign policy is considered "anti US" I've travelled to the US, but never lived there so I don't know how it is, but where I come from, criticising government policy and pointing out things that are wrong is considered a right of democracy. Governments serve the people (not the other way round) and when I criticise the UK government (I'm a British citizen) about it's policy on Iraq, on 3rd world debt, on energy, I don't believe it makes me anti-British, so why would saying the same thing about America make me "anti-US"?

Likewise the paranoia about 9/11. It was a horrific event, truly tragic, but it serves as a useful counter-point to illustrate the fact that so many more people die every single day in developing countries. People from many nations died in the WTC attacks, and people from my own country died in the 7/7 attacks in London.
It is vital that people can discuss these things without being seen as anti-US or whatever, we need to move beyond that. Please read my original post again and notice that I don't say "you" (the US) when talking about war and change, I use the word "us", because everyone is effected and everyone has a responsibility.

I accept that your original link was about US national parks, but it was also about climate change, which affects a lot more than your national parks. The causes behind it are connected with the way we use resources, and it is this fact, the use of resources which defines the foreign policy of so many countries, yours and mine included. You can't separate these things from starvation, they all have the same root cause, our consumption and the way we live today (please not, I'm using "we" again) affects climate change, and it effects the abuse of human rights in countries all across the planet. By changing the way we live we can save both the national parks, and the lives of millions of people at the same time.

You question whether we have the power to stop starvation, and I point you to the UN statistics on it. I think you underestimate the technological level we have achieved. Look at how much we spend on developing and building military projects and imagine how that money could be spent on solving starvation. Besides, a significant part of starvation comes out of countries paying off debts to banks in the developing world. Ecuador and the Philippines (to name two off the top of my head) spend HALF of their GDP in the repayment of interest on loans to organisations like the IMF and the World Bank. Think about that, and you realise why so many people die when their governments can't afford to provide basic sanitation for their people.

I think it's terrible what's happening to the National Parks in the US, and I think it's terrible that the government in my country do so little to protect the few areas of natural beauty we have left in my own country (we could learn a lot from the US in this respect), but nothing happens in isolation and we are paying the price for the way we live. We need to change, and while your excuses about people driving may be valid, the amount of driving people do isn't included in the statistics about energy usage in US vs EU households. That's just internal electricity, and so having to drive to work doesn't affect it.
Oh, and of course cities outside the US have suburbs. London has 10 million people and it's suburbs extend every bit as far as cities in the US. It's the same with most cities in Europe. I live in Lisbon, one of the smallest capital cities, and still here most people live in suburbs that are 20 miles or more away.

Finally, I don't mean to offend John, but there really is no single issue that is more important to anyone on the planet today. I'm not going to talk about myself, but I have changed every aspect of the way I live and will continue to do so in the future. We all have to take responsibility for a mess that we've all contributed towards...and it's a mess that goes far beyond the US national parks.

I won't comment more though, because I do accent that you posted something that is incredibly valid and important, and I applaud that. It touched an issue that I feel very strongly about, and I gave an opinion. I am DEEPLY sorry if you though that there was anything anti-US in it, because that certainly is not how I feel
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:iconkkart:
kkart Featured By Owner Oct 4, 2009  Professional Photographer
Andy, look, the article, as you stated is about the US Parks, and how climate change is affecting them. This is really straying OT here a lot. We all know that Global Warming is a world wide problem, but this is more of a pinpoint assessment on how it impacts one of America's greatest things & treasures. It is done to hit home with my fellow American's to give them an example of it is affecting us with something many of us has seen and experienced. We can sit here and argue the US vs UK and driving all day long, but the fact remains, Europe is much more densely populated than we are [link] It is easier to get around than it is here in the States, without question, because of it and because of the sheer size America is. Keep in mind, Canada is the same, well, even less populated than we are down south here.
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:icontherealoneeye:
TheRealOneEye Featured By Owner Oct 4, 2009   Interface Designer
First off, thank you very much KKart for enlightening Andy. i thought that was a very informative and purposeful summation of the differences between our two continents/countries, not to mention a detailed outline of the benefits of our parks and recreational centers!

It's difficult to get people to understand sometimes how stark the differences are between other nations and America. Each country for the most part has its own unique characteristics that make it interesting, and I LOVE our national parks. Unfortunately I don't drive (I don't trust myself on the road with my limited vision), so I would be out biking/hiking/boating or what have you more than I currently am. I moved from Seattle, WA to Des Moines, IA a few years ago (summer between my sophomore and junior years of high school) and my family decided to drive the almost 2,000 mile distance in our van. At first I thought it would be a complete drag, but once we got out of familiar territory (which at that time was just east of the Cascades) I had a BLAST! I hadn't spent that much time with my parents before, and our five day drive turned in to an awesome family bonding experience. One of the highlights for the trip I think was our drive through Yellowstone :) I really liked it and want to go back someday soon (that's where I got this sweet pic of two buffalo, I was only about forty feet away from them!).

Basically I saw this and thought I should post something. I understand that climate change is a problem, but I haven't really decided whether or not I think humans are solely to blame due to solid evidence that seems to suggest otherwise. I wish that we as a nation didn't pollute as much as we do, but I also think that other countries such as China need to clean up their act, too. I don't think there should be a double standard for Americans :/.

Thanks for the post!
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:iconkkart:
kkart Featured By Owner Oct 4, 2009  Professional Photographer
Wait, you moved from Seattle to Iowa??? OUCH!!!!!
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:icontherealoneeye:
TheRealOneEye Featured By Owner Oct 5, 2009   Interface Designer
... Yes, I did! In my short life (19 years) I've lived in Baltimore, Atlanta, Salinas (basically Sacramento), Seattle, Des Moines, and now I attend college at St. Olaf in Northfield, Minnesota :) So I've experienced both coasts as well as the midwest.

Seattle is probably my favorite place out of all of them, but everywhere I've lived has been great.
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:iconearthhart:
EarthHart Featured By Owner Oct 4, 2009  Hobbyist Photographer
Well, they should have listened in the '70s & acted, instead
of burying their heads in the sand. Serve them right :nod:
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:iconilharess:
Ilharess Featured By Owner Oct 4, 2009
i'm a biologist and from what i know climate change might be a natural one, or maybe slightly enhanced by humans. but pollution is a real threat, whether it causes climate change or not. and habitat loss directly caused by humans.
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:iconallandgr8-art:
Allandgr8-art Featured By Owner Oct 3, 2009
Actually the whole world already experiencing climate changes!
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:iconkkart:
kkart Featured By Owner Oct 4, 2009  Professional Photographer
Well yes but this study is about the US National Parks
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:iconallandgr8-art:
Allandgr8-art Featured By Owner Oct 4, 2009
I know...It's so alarming and something has to be done.
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:iconstartyger:
StarTyger Featured By Owner Oct 3, 2009
While this article from the Arizona Republic [link] highlights a disturbing and massive die-off of aspens in Arizona, it refuses to mention climate change, almost scrupulously avoiding the term.

Since any number of photographers shoot fall aspens,
I wondered if any have noted evidence of this blight. The article implies that around Flagstaff, the "dying aspen syndrome" is horrific, reaching up to 95% of the aspens.
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:iconkkart:
kkart Featured By Owner Oct 4, 2009  Professional Photographer
Ya know, I haven't really noticed anything that extreme here, a few though this year seemed as though they were sick, but not that many...I will have to look more into this
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:icondavincipoppalag:
davincipoppalag Featured By Owner Oct 3, 2009  Hobbyist General Artist
Well no surprise there.. Climate change is threatening the whole world..
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:icongeminiartnstock:
GeminiArtNStock Featured By Owner Oct 3, 2009   Digital Artist
if it carries on like this then we will all have to start hibernating
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:icondavincipoppalag:
davincipoppalag Featured By Owner Oct 3, 2009  Hobbyist General Artist
Or buying beachfront property in Nebraska USA
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:icongeminiartnstock:
GeminiArtNStock Featured By Owner Oct 3, 2009   Digital Artist
haa haa
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:icondavincipoppalag:
davincipoppalag Featured By Owner Oct 3, 2009  Hobbyist General Artist
=D
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:icongeminiartnstock:
GeminiArtNStock Featured By Owner Oct 3, 2009   Digital Artist
John
if you have some time on your hands would you be able to look at this
[link]
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